Question:  When is a grid not a grid?

Answer:  When its a sub-grid.

Lately an issue has been raised on Hypergrid Business about a service offered by a opensim hosting company.  This post was about a service offered by Digiworldz which is being called “Grid within a grid”.   I cannot determine if this is the name that Digiworldz are calling it – or if this is a name that Hypergrid Business has called it.

The resulting discussion around it however has been interesting.   Apart from the few personal attacks on people for their opinions that is common on these forums, there is an important theme in my mind.   “When using services like this, do people really know what they are getting?”

There seems to be some disagreement about the validity of a “grid” that is part of another grid.   Some have postulated that as this “grid within a grid” gets its own login page it IS its own grid.  Others have maintained that as it is still connected to the same grid, can access the same map, connects to the same robust type services, uses the same currency settings as the main grid, and is bound to the same TOS as the host grid, then it is in fact nothing more than an Estate (or Estates) on that grid with a bit extra fancy front end.

I would say the latter is the case.   Going slightly mathematical on you all now, look at the image at the top of this post.   It describes two sets.   One set (B) is a subset of set (A).  Now think of this as grids.   The “host” grid is the set (A).  the numbers inside the circle for (A) are users on that grid.  Set (B) is a “grid within a grid”.  Clearly it is totally enclosed by (A).  While it would be possible to move (B) out of (A), it would mean that users in grid (B) could no longer communicate DIRECTLY with users on grid (A).   They could do so – but that would involve the hypergrid.   If Grid (B) was separate from grid (A) then every communication between A and B would have to go through hypergrid.

In the case of a grid within a grid, there is no need for hypergrid to be involved when comunicating between A and B, why?   Because they are all in the same grid.   Everything that is in B, is ALSO part of A.  It’s a subgrid, and everything that applies to A, also applies to B.

Does this matter?   Possibly not.   I am not criticizing the service, I am sure it is exactly what some people want.  It gives them a coherent estate they have a lot of control over – but that control is limited by the TOS and settings of the host grid.    If people know this, accept this, and want this – then no problem.   It’s a solution that will be useful to some.

However, I feel that services like this should be more clearly advertised.  It should be made clear you are not getting a standalone grid – but an area of another grid.    In some cases this will be preferred.  Personally I would not want to deal with my own asset server – I have no problem with simulators but for an active grid, an asset server is a beast!

I cannot see anything on Digiworldz website advertising any grid within a grid – but I may have missed it so I think it likely this is a term defined by someone else.  I hope however that in any service Digiworldz DO market that is along these lines they do make it clear what the limitations are.  In particular ensure that customers know they are going to be limited by Digiworldz TOS.


Grids and “Sub” Grids.

2 thoughts on “Grids and “Sub” Grids.

  • August 1, 2017 at 1:29 pm

    Great post and I share your thoughts on this subject. I would go even further and say that by Digiworldz not disputing the term “Grid within a grid” shows that they are willing to prey on the non-techie people who are going to believe that they get an actual grid.
    It’s just a bunch of regions on the Digiworldz grid that allows Digiworldz to claim on their stats (another reason for me to hate the “stats” process). The people getting these regions are fooled into believing they have some sort of power as a grid owner. But if you cannot make up your own TOS and make normal grid decisions means you are still under the rules and laws of Digiworldz.
    And has anyone asked or found out if the grid owner has god powers? Because what is the use of being a grid owner if you don’t? I guess possibly they could? I haven’t researched this. Can they ban full grids from entering theirs as you can with a real grid? Can you change the regions names daily if you so choose as you would be able to on a real grid? When the people come in do they have the “@yourgridname” after their name or do they come in with “@Digiworldz” after there name?(you know… like when you hypergrid out and it shows what grid you are from.)
    I would tell people who are thinking about doing this is to find the grid that they want to support at the moment and just get some regions there and then go to and get your own website. Then post the URL of the regions on your website and you’ve already got just about everything that Digiworldz is offering. Better yet get var regions. In Discovery Grid I already have more land mass there with two var regions that I would get with the “grid within a grid” thing on digiworldz and for a ton less money.

    If your goal is to have the freedom of being a grid owner this is for sure not the way to do it. There is very little freedom there. Zetamex or Dreamland would offer you something with much more freedom.

  • August 1, 2017 at 1:42 pm

    Good points all. I think I can answer some of these (but of course I do not work for Digiworldz so this as opinion and technical experience. They may have ways round these – but I doubt it.

    I suspect that god powers – the ability to “Enter Admin Mode” would not be available. Making that available to estate or region owners would make it possible for admins on those “sub grids” to be able to change permissions on objects. Their restricted exports of OARs and IARs would not be restricted if you can just change owner to you and give yourself full permissions.

    With regards to the name after your name when you hypergrid out. I would imaging it has to be @digiworlds as you ARE part of digiworlds grid. Presence is part of robust type services, not simulators so it is not related to the regions but the back end grid services. Because of this I cannot see how it would even know you were on a “sub grid”. When you visit other grids then – they do not see YOUR “grid” but Digiworldz. If they want to visit you – they (by default) would probably hypergrid directly to Digiworldz welcome area – not yours unless you gave them your specific HG region (which would also have in the URL).

    The only real thing this offers is simply a dedicated server which means you are not sharing processing power on your regions with others. However this is variable. You can easily over populate your server and make it run at a crawl. Like anything it depends what you need, but I do agree with what you say Linda. I can’t personally see any benefit for ME with a system like this. A varregion on the grid I wanted to be on makes more sense to me.

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